The more I hear about Rob Bell, Deepak Chopra, the more I get excited. Coming from a fundamental, conservative, staunch Calvinist, that may sound surprising. And on one hand, I am not excited about the deception these men have caused. Satan is no doubt well-pleased with them. But I do know that the devil is God's devil, and as we see in Job, the devil only does what God allows, and we know that God only allows what will ultimately bring about His greatest glory and His people's greatest joy. And while I realize many of my friends who are fundamentalists are probably amening this at this point, I don't think you, and perhaps even some of my friends who call themselves Calvinists, will be in my next paragraph.
God's greatest glory and our greatest joy will be, in part, the damnation of billions of soul into hell where the wrath of God against their sins will eternally be poured out. Can I get an amen for that?
And this is why I say that, unless we can amen that last sentence, we may be something akin to universalists in practice. As in, we go about this life thanking and praising God for giving us life, never thinking about the fact that the same God that sovereignly chose to save us has sovereignly chosen to damn others- many, many others.
Now non-Calvinists will disagree and say that God doesn't damn that we just hop into hell all on our own, and the purpose of this blog is not to refute that, although all I will say at this point is read your Bible, God damns for His glory and we will praise Him for it in heaven forever (Rev. 19:1-7, esp. 3). As much as people love to read the Proverbs, I have yet to hear anyone praise God for Proverbs 16:4,
There is an interesting paradox in Christians today. And I say Christians in all seriousness, I REALLY believe that there are true Christians, born again, filled with the Holy Spirit who love God and seek to do His will, who think God wants all men everywhere to be saved, that God is saddened when people go to hell and don't repent, and I believe there are Christians who have no idea what to think of verses like Proverbs 16:4, so they just ignore it and pretend it does not exist. Or, they think that, since a loving God could never take pleasure in sending someone to hell, that whatever Rev. 19 or Proverbs 16:4 means, surely it does not mean that God has purposed the damnation of unbelievers to glorify Himself (even though this is exactly what Romans 9 teaches).
And at this point, what you need to realize is, the only difference between a universalist and yourself is that you still believe unbelievers go to hell even though God hates the thought of sinners in hell!
I would argue that, given the choice between a God who allows unbelievers to go to hell yet gets no joy out of them being in hell and a God who, BECAUSE HE HATES THE THOUGHT OF HIS CREATED HUMAN BEINGS GOING TO HELL, CHOOSES INSTEAD TO SAVE THEM AND BRING THEM TO REPENTANCE, that the God who saves everyone is a far more loving, kind, and good God. Why? Because He does not deny Himself, He saves everyone, which makes Him happy, and in turn would make us happy. So I am saying that I would rather be a universalist than be like most Christians today, even some mixed-up Calvinists, who think that God wants all men to be saved and gets no glory or joy from the damnation of unbelievers.
So now I close with this: the paradox that I referred to earlier is that we have so many Christians who think that many people are going to spend a Christless eternity in hell suffering God's wrath despite God not being happy about this. So God is pouring out His wrath on those in hell, yet He hates doing it? This makes no sense, yet this is what many of you believe. Further, you seem to think that this is ok, that God can hate to punish sinners, yet still punish sinners and be a good and loving God. Friends, a human being, let alone a god, that torments others all the while not really wanting to do so is not a good human being. We call people that do that kind of stuff psycho. The same would apply for a god like that.
So here is the question: Will you believe the Bible when it says that God gets glory and joy in the damnation of sinners, and that we will praise God for pouring out His wrath on them for all eternity in heaven too, or will you become a universalist and denounce any God that would ever dare send a single soul to hell and get pleasure from it?
God's greatest glory and our greatest joy will be, in part, the damnation of billions of soul into hell where the wrath of God against their sins will eternally be poured out. Can I get an amen for that?
And this is why I say that, unless we can amen that last sentence, we may be something akin to universalists in practice. As in, we go about this life thanking and praising God for giving us life, never thinking about the fact that the same God that sovereignly chose to save us has sovereignly chosen to damn others- many, many others.
Now non-Calvinists will disagree and say that God doesn't damn that we just hop into hell all on our own, and the purpose of this blog is not to refute that, although all I will say at this point is read your Bible, God damns for His glory and we will praise Him for it in heaven forever (Rev. 19:1-7, esp. 3). As much as people love to read the Proverbs, I have yet to hear anyone praise God for Proverbs 16:4,
"The Lord has made all for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom."
There is an interesting paradox in Christians today. And I say Christians in all seriousness, I REALLY believe that there are true Christians, born again, filled with the Holy Spirit who love God and seek to do His will, who think God wants all men everywhere to be saved, that God is saddened when people go to hell and don't repent, and I believe there are Christians who have no idea what to think of verses like Proverbs 16:4, so they just ignore it and pretend it does not exist. Or, they think that, since a loving God could never take pleasure in sending someone to hell, that whatever Rev. 19 or Proverbs 16:4 means, surely it does not mean that God has purposed the damnation of unbelievers to glorify Himself (even though this is exactly what Romans 9 teaches).
And at this point, what you need to realize is, the only difference between a universalist and yourself is that you still believe unbelievers go to hell even though God hates the thought of sinners in hell!
I would argue that, given the choice between a God who allows unbelievers to go to hell yet gets no joy out of them being in hell and a God who, BECAUSE HE HATES THE THOUGHT OF HIS CREATED HUMAN BEINGS GOING TO HELL, CHOOSES INSTEAD TO SAVE THEM AND BRING THEM TO REPENTANCE, that the God who saves everyone is a far more loving, kind, and good God. Why? Because He does not deny Himself, He saves everyone, which makes Him happy, and in turn would make us happy. So I am saying that I would rather be a universalist than be like most Christians today, even some mixed-up Calvinists, who think that God wants all men to be saved and gets no glory or joy from the damnation of unbelievers.
So now I close with this: the paradox that I referred to earlier is that we have so many Christians who think that many people are going to spend a Christless eternity in hell suffering God's wrath despite God not being happy about this. So God is pouring out His wrath on those in hell, yet He hates doing it? This makes no sense, yet this is what many of you believe. Further, you seem to think that this is ok, that God can hate to punish sinners, yet still punish sinners and be a good and loving God. Friends, a human being, let alone a god, that torments others all the while not really wanting to do so is not a good human being. We call people that do that kind of stuff psycho. The same would apply for a god like that.
So here is the question: Will you believe the Bible when it says that God gets glory and joy in the damnation of sinners, and that we will praise God for pouring out His wrath on them for all eternity in heaven too, or will you become a universalist and denounce any God that would ever dare send a single soul to hell and get pleasure from it?
Please further explain because this question keeps popping into my mind. "If God hates us and gets joy out of damning us to hell. then why would he ever save us? Why would we ever be in heaven with a God that utterly hates us?" I would say because He loves us. And God doesnt hate to send people to hell, but He is grieved or saddened with an unbeliever that chooses not to follow Him. Not that the sinner has some power over God. God wants to be praised to be glorified. So why doesnt God just make us all praise Him and glory in Him. Because God chooses to give us the option. Knowing full well the ending He knows that He will either be glorified in there salvation or in the judgement He casts upon them. As the 19th chapter of Revelations points out and Prov 16:4 reinforces.
ReplyDeleteI am not so sure that God is grieved or saddened with an unbeliever when He chooses not to follow Him. I think God is angered by this, not saddened, that to me seems what Scripture teaches.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't think that is a very good reason for God not to save everyone- to just give us the option. While we do have the option, because we are dead in our sins nobody chooses God and repents. So, God elects to save some for His glory and to leave the rest in their sins to demonstrate the glory of His just judgment and wrath against sin and sinners. God is glorified in cleaning up sinners , turning their hearts towards Him and making them willing to believe by His grace.
In other words, if God just left it up to choose, its not about His glory anymore, its abou us conjuring up the goodness to trust in Christ for salvation. God is not glorified in this if we just create saving faith out of some kind of goodness in our hearts, which the Bible says we do not have. And think about it, I have SOOO much more to praise God for as a Calvinist when I recognize that Scripture teaches that unless God poured out His grace on me, changing my heart and making me willing to believe and trust in Christ for salvation, then I wouldn't have! This is true grace. he only difference between a person who repents of their sins and a person who doesn't is God's grace, not man's will, because the only thing man ever wills is against God.
ReplyDeleteSo if you are a Christian, praise God that He turned your heart from your sins and made you willing to believe the gospel, otherwise you would be just like all the other lost, unbelievers out there! And this is why Calvinism doesn't make me less aggressive in evangelism, but MORE aggressive because I understand and trust in God alone to save those whom He has chosen to save totally by His grace.