These are my thoughts in light of this debate/discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsrThQp3KHA
I also have a video reply here: https://x.com/ptomer/status/1821251772499009687
An Escondido Escapade: Christian Nationalism,
Wolfe, Gordon, & Wilson
1.
This isn’t about postmill or amil or premill as much
as it is what is reality in front of us, and is civil government/magistrates under
God’s authority.
a.
If it is, then should Christians seek the power of the
sword of the magistrate to be used to punish evil and promote good, Rom. 13., 1
Pet. 2:13-17, etc.
b.
Gordon seems to mostly say we must submit to God’s
providence, implying that to try and bring reform to the civil realm is to pry
into the secret will of God, to refuse to suffer for righteousness’ sake, etc.
c.
Would he apply this standard to reform in the Church
and its leadership/ministers? At one point he said something like he already
has godly rule and reign – in the Church. That’s laughable presently.
d.
If he wants to say the “true church” is healthy and
pure, that’s fine and well, but the visible church and those filling the office
of minister/Elder presently, are greatly wicked and corrupt.
e.
Gordon also thought Wilson, etc., were saying that
governments that do not thoroughly obey God, kiss the Son, and promote
righteousness are not true governments at all. This is false.
f.
We acknowledge real governors, even if they are wicked
ones, just as we acknowledge real ministers, even if they are
compromised/false.
g.
They must be brought under church discipline, and if
persist in sin, the keys exercised of excommunicating them, in the church.
h.
Likewise, the sword of justice given to the magistrate
must be wielded against those who greatly abuse it from within government.
i.
The lesser magistrates should be the first to do so,
but when they fail, those being governed must seek reform, by voting, yes, but
also running for office, exposing the rot and compromise, forming local
governments where possible/feasible within our government system.
j.
When rulers become utter despots, they are no true
rulers at all, and must be resisted to serve God righteously, even as Pharaoh put
Israel to hard slavery and God sent Moses to Pharaoh to set His people free to
serve Him in His land, flowing with milk and honey.
2.
Wilson would do better to grant that reform must come in
home, church, and state governments, that they all feed off of/benefit one
another.
a.
The Protestant Reformation was a transformation of
home, church, and state. It wasn’t merely a few doctrinal points or heart
religion changed.
b.
The Home has the rod of correction, the State the
sword of justice, and the Church the Keys of the Kingdom of heaven. You can be “booted”
out of your home, your state/nation, and your church. These are each realms.
c.
Being disciplined as a teenager or young adult by your
parents kicking you out of the house after years of rebellion doesn’t mean you
cease to be a citizen of the United States, or even the Kingdom of Heaven.
d.
But, if the punishment by the parents is just, it
likely means you’ve been living a criminal life, and an ungodly life, and thus
the sword of justice and keys of the kingdom/church discipline would be in use
as well.
e.
Bottom-up reform is great, and Wilson says Stephen
Wolfe acknowledges there will in some measure need to be consent of the
governed to move government in a more righteous direction.
f.
But when the State/Government does promote
Christianity in various ways, and justly punishes those who oppose it, that
helps facilitate reform in the churches and homes, teaching and training one
another in the Word of God and beyond, to stimulate revival.
g.
Israel in bondage in Egypt, given their flesh and
blood circumstances under the fist of Pharaoh, could not worship and serve the
Lord as He demanded, with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength.
h.
Only being delivered from that real, political, civil
evil, could godly worship in the home and church come.
i.
Perhaps we aren’t that bad off, yet, in our nation,
but we are worse off than we were, and it may not be long before we get there.
j.
Should we simply take that as God’s judgment and
providence and fold, letting the wicked take the high places of earthly government?
k.
That is wickedness, and we should never allow for
that, but strive for reform in home, church, and yes, especially the tyrannous
state today.
l.
Gordon speaks like a Christian Stoic, just learning to
embrace God’s secret will. Really he is the one prying into it, by questioning
whether seeking better earthly rulers is resisting God’s secret/decretive will.
m.
We do not know, but we do know we are to push for
righteousness in every sphere of life. As a Kuyperian sphere sovereignty guy,
you would think Gordon would understand this.
3.
At one point Gordon says “I don’t see how the public
square is ours to take back in light of Belgic Confession 13”.
a.
Article 13: “We believe that the same God,
after he had created all things, did not forsake them, or give them up to
fortune or chance, but that he rules and governs them according to his holy
will, so that nothing happens in this world without his appointment: nevertheless,
God neither is the author of, nor can be charged with, the sins which are
committed. For his power and goodness are so great and incomprehensible, that
he orders and executes his work in the most excellent and just manner, even
then, when devils and wicked men act unjustly. And, as to what he doth
surpassing human understanding, we will not curiously inquire into, farther
than our capacity will admit of; but with the greatest humility and reverence
adore the righteous judgments of God, which are hid from us, contenting
ourselves that we are disciples of Christ, to learn only those things which he
has revealed to us in his Word, without transgressing these limits. This
doctrine affords us unspeakable consolation, since we are taught thereby that
nothing can befall us by chance, but by the direction of our most gracious and
heavenly Father; who watches over us with a paternal care, keeping all
creatures so under his power, that not a hair of our head (for they are all
numbered), nor a sparrow, can fall to the ground, without the will of our
Father, in whom we do entirely trust; being persuaded, that he so restrains the
devil and all our enemies, that without his will and permission, they cannot
hurt us. And therefore we reject that damnable error of the Epicureans, who say
that God regards nothing, but leaves all things to chance.”
b.
By this logic, a thief breaking your door down is just
part of God’s providence, and so you might need to question if resisting him
and shooting him is part of God’s secret will or not. This is utter nonsense!
c.
Whether or not the Lord will enable us to stop that
robber from taking our stuff or harming our family, and likewise whether or not
we will be able to stop the dangerous mass immigration replacing our Heritage
American people and its culture and society, is unknown by us.
d.
What is known, is that we should strive to stop this
evil, each in our own callings, and in proportion as we are able with other
responsibilities in home and church, work, etc.
4.
Gordon is really critiquing is an uncharitable view of
Postmillennialism.
a.
He even says Chiliasm in the early church was a precursor
to Postmillennialism, rather than Pre-millennialism!
b.
He calls himself an optimistic Amillennialist. So do
I. But I disown his brand, and am closer probably to Doug Wilson and those like
him.
c.
Gordon seems to
thinks that Wilson, etc., are only promoting a theology of glory, not a
theology of the cross, and so that we will not have to suffer in this life but
go from one sweeping victory to the next.
d.
While some on the fringe may have that perspective,
Wilson, Longshore, and others out of Moscow do not believe that at all.
e.
A realist postmillennialism is acceptable to me, in
that it doesn’t deny that Christ said in this world we will have trouble, that
through many tribulations we must enter the Kingdom of Heaven, etc.
f.
I do think there are times where the postmill guys so
emphasize victory and advance, that they are imbalanced and do not emphasize the
struggle enough. That is a problem, but not as big as Gordon thinks.
g.
Regardless, Gordon says its all the postmills that are
causing people to “lose their minds” and put their trust in the State, rather
than God, and growth in holiness via the Church. This is a false dichotomy
though.
h.
Again, there are those on the fringes, Wilson
acknowledges them.
i.
I agree we should recognize and speak against
excess/imbalance.
j.
But Gordon verges on Anabaptism, utter passivity, not
as bad as R. Scott Clark, but he has the Escondido taint on him.
k.
He seems to think natural law is the moral law, but
perhaps not the first table of the law, since he doesn’t want to enforce
blasphemy laws, etc.
l.
He also freaked out at Wolfe’s comments somewhere in
his book about the civil magistrate punishing the heretic with the sword.
m.
It is almost as if Gordon and these guys have never
read the Reformed tradition on any of these things, or just reject it
wholesale.
n.
They should at least be honest that they reject it and
think Calvin, Knox, etc., were all wrong. When Longshore did ask if Knox’s
words “give me Scotland or I die” were legit to pray, Gordon said they were
NOT.
5.
Gordon’s best remarks are when/where he differed with
hardline Postmil, or at least pointed out some of its weaknesses.
a.
Personally, Gordon was helpful to me a few years back,
watching him at a Ligonier Conference speaking about when the foundations are
destroyed, what shall the righteous do?
b.
His message was on Psalm 11, and was excellent, and
the kind of reminder that we need, and that solid postmill types will preach
and teach on as well, not only pounding the drum of “victory”.
c.
When the wicked bend their bow to shoot the upright in
heart, and the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do? Psalm 11
says the LORD is in His holy temple, heaven, beholding the sons of men, testing
the righteous to endure through this trial, but hating the wicked and the one
who loves violence. The LORD will rain coals of fire and brimstone upon them, “for
the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the
upright.”
d.
I needed to be reminded of that, and other passages
like Psalm 37, which commands us to not fret because of evildoers, is something
we all need to hear.
e.
But Gordon and Clark and other Radical/Modern 2
Kingdom guys need to stop fretting about righteous doers, who seek reform not
only in the home and church, but also the state as well!
f.
Being pastoral to such would be to remind them of the
Lord’s sovereignty, to be praying, studying the Word, raising your children in
the nurture and admonition of the Lord, but to keep on fighting the good fight
of faith as a citizen of the United States, or whatever nation you are in, to
see better and godlier rulers in our homeland, for God’s glory.
g.
Calvin’s Geneva or Knox’s desire for Scotland and his
writing against bloody Mary and all the rest, shows this was a political/spiritual
battle.
h.
The wicked powers that be are in high places, the
demons are in office, and Satan is always seeking to wrest power.
i.
In fact, Gordon challenges Wilson and Longshore on
this point, where Satan tempts Christ in the wilderness with the kingdoms of
the world.
j.
But Wilson/Longshore rightly point out that Christ
resisted that temptation, not because He shouldn’t have authority and dominion,
but because He should take it from the Devil through His life, death,
resurrection, and ascension to glory, not by bowing to Satan!
k.
So to not resist evil, including and especially the
government, is actually closer to bowing the knee to the devil, than resisting
him imperfectly, especially when he has control of civil government.
l.
There may come a point, in God’s providence, where we
are so utterly helpless and powerless and under the boot of a wicked, Satanic
regime, that the only thing left for us to do is pray and plead with God to
supernaturally deliver us. But in God’s kindness, we are not there yet.
m.
This does not mean we do not pray the Lord’s prayer,
or that we are saying we trust in chariots or horses. King David wrote that, not
trusting in chariots or horses, but using them to drive out the wicked just as
he was commanded by God, saying, in Ps. 144:1, “Blessed
be the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle.”
n.
Sure, not everyone is called to be a David, a King, a magistrate,
but how about we desire that God would raise up David like Kings in civil
government, to rule and reign for God’s glory and the people’s good?
o.
Gordon says the Dominion Mandate/Cultural Mandate was
fulfilled by Christ for us, and I think refers to Christ as High Priest and we
as a Kingdom of priests. Amen, but that is not all.
p.
In Christ, we are all prophets, priests, and kings, and
that is expressed variously in home, church, and state, according to our
stations/callings.
6.
Basic theological distinctions are being muddied by
Gordon.
a.
To trust in/believe the Lord will be faithful to His
promises, and use the means He has ordained to bring about the discipling of
the nations -- and I grant this means God has His elect from/out of peoples
from every tribe, tongue, and nation, and not that every last person in each
nation shall be saved in the end – is not to make the means an idol!
b.
I believe strongly in covenant nurture of my children,
that God will save them/regenerate them, likely at an early age, as I parent by
God’s promises, raising them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
c.
That is trusting in God and the work of Christ and His
powerful Spirit, to do what He has promised according to His promises, which
includes not mere passive faith, but active obedience, faith working through
love, to nurture my children, have them baptized, taught, and live a godly,
manly example to my wife and children in word and deed.
d.
But so many supposedly Reformed folks today, like
Gordon, pit God’s providence against His means -- whether in the home, church,
or state.
e.
Sure, there can
be cross providences, hard exceptions, Job like sufferings despite righteous
living and faithful use of the means.
f.
But even Job, persisting in faith, was received to
more than he had before. You cannot push all these blessings from the
temporal/earthly realm to the eternal/heavenly realm after Christ’s return.
g.
Yet that is often what Gordon and others want to do.
We are Pilgrims, wanderers, exiles, this world is not our lasting home, so therefore
embrace the suffering and misery and don’t try to do too much to change it,
lest you be going against God’s providential purpose for His Church. That’s the
crux of the issue.
h.
Well, Stephen Wolfe is Amill, not postmill, men like C.
Jay Engel are Amil, and pretty pessimistic at times at that. But they all seem
to recognize that even if the Lord will not always or even often bless our
labors greatly to reform governments or churches or homes, etc., it is our duty
to pursue such as best we can, for God’s glory.
i.
This is, after all, seeking first the Kingdom of God
and His righteousness. If these efforts fail in our lifetime, may they bear
fruit in the lives and times of our children, grandchildren, etc.
j.
Christ and the Apostles, like the Prophets and people
of God before them, were wise, fled from danger when necessary, and even at
times by the sword cut down the wicked, not only the sword of the Spirit but
the physical sword when duty and circumstance called for it.
k.
There is no honor and glory in seeking out martyrdom.
l.
Thankfully Gordon acknowledges similar to this in the discussion
with Wilson/Longshore, admitting it doesn’t always lead to great gains for the
Church, but also crushes the Church often.
m.
But I would be no hero if a murderous rapist were at the
door of my house, and said to my family, “I will do nothing, I must see if the
Lord’s will is to deliver us from this or not.” No, I would use the means I
had, my guns, my fists, whatever, to stop the evil from harming my family.
n.
If despite my best efforts to not break the 6th
commandment, my family perished, I would accept that bitter and hard providence
from the Lord.
o.
I’d also seek the death penalty for the murdering
rapist if he got away, for the magistrate to justly punish the evildoer.
p.
Expand that out to governments in general, nations at
large, and the points should be the same. We do not want wicked foreigners or
wicked rulers over us destroying us and our families.
q.
We are to pray to God to deliver us from evil, and
then by the means God has given us, we are to pursue the cutting down of evildoers,
rather than waiting on God to do some sort of miracle to deliver us from evil.
r.
God is not demanding we pray for a miracle, but that
he would bless our faithfulness and efforts to live righteously and see evil
removed.
s.
A lot of this involves praying for our politicians,
but in our nation where we can run for office and have a lot of influence in
various ways, we should be committed to that cause as we are able/called to do
so.
t.
Gordon freaked out that James White called the
greatest evil today the State. I think Sproul said he was told many decades ago
by Schaeffer that it was the State that was the greatest danger.
u.
If that danger and threat is so great, in our own
leadership, on our own shores, with open borders and aborting and trans-ing of
children, how can Christians, men in particular, not take up the battle cry to
resist evil?
v.
While some may do so without trusting in God, or by
fearing man rather than God, so what? We correct and rebuke that where it
happens, and press on. We do not forbid the blessing of wine because it might
lead to drunkenness. How much more so the blessing of fighting against evil.
w.
The fact our leaders like Gordon and others think this
is resisting God’s secret will, or might be doing so, and this isn’t really the
place of a Christian to labor for these ends, shows you that they will shoot us
down in words, and possibly church discipline, etc., not for pursuing these
righteous things in imbalanced or wicked ways, but for pursuing such reform of
the civil government at all.
x.
For many even supposedly Reformed/Evangelical Pastors,
to fight for such with real earnestness and Patriotism is to denounce Christ
and His kingdom and reign, and so is anti-Christ and anti-Gospel.
y.
So do not be surprised if they treat you like a
heretic or one greatly deceived. Find faithful churches that will minister to
you, encourage you to be faithful in home, church, and state, and rebuke you
when you are lax or excessive or fretting unfaithfully in any one of these
spheres.
z.
Gordon mentions not dishonoring rulers, even those like
Joe Biden. But Just as in the Church, when ministers show themselves over time
to be wicked and corrupt, “woe” must be pronounced over them/exposed.
7.
Proverbs 25:4-5, 26, “Take away the dross from silver, And
it will go to the silversmith for jewelry. Take away the wicked from before the
king, And his throne will be established in righteousness…. A righteous man who
falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well.”
a.
May we see that our rulers are reformed, personally,
and may those wicked Wormtongues around them, those false advisors, be destroyed.
b.
May we give sound wisdom, live by it, and take
righteous action.
c.
So that the throne of the King will be established in
righteousness, and so we may not be so-called righteous men who falter before
the wicked when the battle is upon us.
d.
We have far too many murky springs and polluted wells,
even by men who in some sense, as Scripture shows, may be called righteous.
e.
May we be purer of heart, mind, and service than
these, by God’s grace.
f.
And by these God-ordained means -- not neglecting or
forgetting Home and Church but all coming together in righteousness – may it
truly be said of Christ the King of Kings, “Your throne, O God, is forever and
ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You love
righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
g.
And as Psalm 2 shows us, the Lord
laughs at the wicked rulers of the earth and will crush them because of Christ
His holy King seated upon Zion, to give to Christ the nations for His
inheritance, and the ends of the earth for His possession, breaking the wicked with
a rod of iron, may indeed the kings of this earth be instructed to “Serve
the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
and you perish in the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are
all those who put their trust in Him.”
h.
May we pray the Lord’s prayer in earnest, that His
kingdom come, and will be done, as in heaven so on earth. May the promise to
Abraham that nations and Kings would come from his loins be realized. May the
nations be ruled in righteousness, by Christ the King of Kings, through His earthly
Kings that come from His seed, for His glory and our good.
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